How to Handle the Death of a Loved One | The Better Than Rich Show Ep. 28

Overcoming Grief

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Overcoming Grief 〰️

How to Hand the Death of a Loved One

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  Andrew Biggs 00:00

  How do you actually handle your own emotions? I mean, you have to process them and a lot of that just means feeling your emotions letting it come out if you feel like you need to cry cry if you feel like you need to scream scream

  Mike Abramowitz 00:23

  Welcome to the better than rich show with your hosts Andrew Biggs and Mike Abramowitz. The better than rich show helps ambitious leaders who are on a mission to leave the world better than they found it. change their perspective on what's important, increase their income and impact and systemize their life and business. If you've ever struggled with finding your purpose have felt disconnected or distracted or found yourself going through the motions. This show will remind you that what you do matters and will re inspire you to chase your highest dreams. It's time for you to become better than rich.

  Andrew Biggs 01:01

  Hello, everyone and welcome back to the better than rich Show. I'm your host Andrew Biggs. I'm here with my co host, Mike Abramowitz. Mike, how you doing today?

  Mike Abramowitz 01:09

  So it was a great day, Andrew, it's always a great day.

  Andrew Biggs 01:12

  Well, I'm excited to chat today. And we have a little bit more of a serious topic today. You know, if you're watching the live stream, you know about the massacre that just occurred in Texas. And if you're listening back to this, we're recording this the week of and obviously, there's really nothing that can be sad around such tragedy and such evil in the world. And also, this was a topic that was slated a little ironically, for this week, around the death of a loved one and losing someone in your your own life. That's obviously someone who maybe you don't know personally, but how do you deal with tragedy in a way is kind of what we're talking about, and particularly the death of a loved one. So today, it might be a little bit more of a somber day, maybe a few less laughs and a few less smiles, but an important conversation here on the better than Rick show. And it might, you know, you obviously had a personal experience losing someone close to you, I have as well, we can share that a little bit about that. And, and also try to try to help others who maybe are going through this personally right now or have in the past and, and still aren't sure how to navigate it. And you know, one of the sad realities of being a human being is that if it hasn't happened to you, it will at some point, you know, you will lose someone that you care deeply about. And so it's just an important topic. And I think some people are very ill equipped when this comes up. And so it'll be interesting to chat through with you today. But yeah, Mike, when you think about this topic, you know what comes up for you?

  Mike Abramowitz 02:48

  Well, for context, I had to learn fairly early on in life, just had to navigate through the uncertainty of death. Because growing up I that was my biggest fear. I don't know if any of the listeners or if you could relate to that, but that was my biggest fear Growing up is the fear of death. It was like it's the the most uncertain. Part of life is is there's just this emptiness of uncertainty. And as much as people say that they have the answers. It's like no one really knows the answers. So what are the answers? It's what we believe. And so I had to work very diligently through my 20s and 30s to figure out what are the beliefs that can help me navigate through the extreme uncertainty of death. And you know, when mom died when I was 20, and then my brother's wife died when I was in my mid 20s. And my college roommate died when I was in my mid 20s. And my uncle died in my mid 20s. Both my grandparents died in my teens. And then recently, my my other another one of my brother's wives just just died this year, or Christmas Eve of 2021. And it's it's it's tough. I mean, there's there's no, there's no doubt that it is the most challenging experience, especially when you have a death of a loved one the death of a parent. And then you know, Lindsey and I we had a stillbirth a death of our our child, it's like, this is really a challenging topic to navigate through, especially when you have two different demographics. You have a demographic who's never experienced this before. And they're trying to console someone that they really love and care about. And they don't necessarily know how to tap into that empathy. And then you have the second person who is experiencing this, but they typically don't know how to navigate through it with themselves. So they try to console or they try to get support from someone who's not capable of consoling them. So it's a very unique topic. And I know you and I can empathize with it because we've all have experienced death of loved ones and people close to us.

  Andrew Biggs 04:57

  Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for Sharing. I mean, I think in some ways you've you've had to navigate more situations than I, you know, I remember losing, you know, grandparents early on. But I was also really young. And so it wasn't really until the death of my father here and in 2018, where, you know, it really hit home, right. And I think as a starting point, you talked about the fear of death. And like, this is a really deep lesson. But we have to also we do need to address it, which is, you know, what, how often do you think about that? How, what do you what are your thoughts on that, and if you haven't really taken the time to think through that, if you're just like, go go go all the time. And your only aim in life is like how to make more money, or it's how to close the next deal, or how to look better on Instagram, or whatever it is, and you're not thinking about your own mortality? Well, there's an issue with that. And that is that death is going to come kind of hit you on the side of the head, right? It's going to blindside you whether what, when you come close to death, or when a loved one dies, and that that moment come. So thinking through, you know, your own mortality and the mortality of others is a really important thing, even if it's just to calibrate how to how to appreciate your life now, how to appreciate the time you are spending with all of your loved ones currently. And so just just thinking through that as an important topic, and contemplating your, you know, death in general, what are your beliefs around it, have you taken the time to do that, and I would encourage every single one of you listening to do so. And and to think about, you know, your own limitations, like how finite this life is. So it's just one important important lesson I see out of this and helping you formulate your thoughts on it.

  Mike Abramowitz 06:59

  And some people take to competence and have a foundation built based on their religious beliefs. And religion comes into a really a beautiful place here. And and sometimes as we get older and mature, we realize maybe that I'm, you know, being religious and being raised in this environment. But I don't know if I really aligned with this philosophy when it comes to death. And I think that's where sometimes things get torn into, that's what it was, for me one of the things that was for me, because there's the the philosophy and the Jewish faith of when when we die, it's like, we go into a waiting, like, almost the way I interpreted it's like a waiting room. And we're waiting for what the Jewish people believe, like the Messiah to come. And so it's like, we're waiting. So it's like this waiting place for when extreme peace takes place where I want to believe that to be the truth, and I'm sure there's a piece of me that dies. But I know when I was 20 years old, in the hospital room, and I saw my mom, you know, and super traumatized over the whole experience, but witnessing the life leave her body. I mean, it was it was a horrendous, traumatizing experience of like, seeing the blood come out of her mouth. And just, it was just awful, awful experience for a 20 year old to experience and watch and witness. And I remember just seeing this lifeless body that was laying there that's like, the energy just went somewhere else. And there's also science and studies that show that the body will weigh less after it, you know, from being alive to being dead within that transition. So if energy cannot be created nor destroyed, it just allowed me to question of like, Well, where did that energy go? And that kind of aligns a little bit more with like, more of like a Buddhist philosophy. And the challenge that I think a lot of people experience myself included, like, Well, I was raised Jewish, therefore, I need to have all these Jewish beliefs or if I was raised, raised Catholic or Buddhist or Hindu, like, then I have to anchor to these beliefs. But that rigidity, I don't think creates curiosity. And what I would invite for our community and for you, the listener to invite curiosity of like, what what might you believe? If you didn't believe what your religion believed? Possibly explore it? That's, that's something that shows up for me because no one really knows. And if we get so anchored to a belief, and we don't question why we're anchored to it, or do we actually believe it, potentially, that's where even more uncertainty can live because now we're questioning some of some of the foundational principles and beliefs that we've, you know, spent our entire lives listening to and, and honoring. I don't know, I know you spend some time and exploring this too. So I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

  Andrew Biggs 09:58

  Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think So, in general, the advice, and people get threatened by this, right? They get threatened by questioning their beliefs. But you know, there's a few reasons why you should question their beliefs, primarily. If you really believe them, and they're really true, they should be able to stand up to scrutiny, right? And so like, you need that question what you're taught, so that, you know, if it can withhold scrutiny, then great, right, then you're even more confident in what you believe. And if it can't withstand scrutiny, then maybe you have further investigating to do, or maybe you have further evidence to try to find to support them, or maybe you need to rework them. And this, this sort of, like process of contemplation of your beliefs is so important. And what happens is people end up for arriving in a league with a belief system, maybe it's religious, right? Or maybe it's the opposite of religion, I'm an atheist or whatever. So whatever belief system they arrive at, they arrive at that conclusion. And then they don't want to have it questions because it's like a foundational axiomatic like, sort of structure that they're basing their entire reality on. So to have that shake, does cause a lot of uncertainty in someone's psyche. What we need to be get comfortable with, though, is to question these things. And, you know, what I tend to feel is, I've at least done enough investigation to, to believe and know for myself, that we're eternal beings, you know, and that I existed, you know, before this, and I will exist after this life is an interesting sort of concept. And I have done enough investigation, to feel that and to actually kind of almost have a reference point internally, have to find that place, that eternal place within me, doesn't mean it's always where I operate from. But it's kind of the deepest part of me with that's the most at peace with this life. And knowing that is really useful. What happens after that? I don't know, you know, do we go to heaven? Do we go to hell? Are we reincarnated? Are we, you know, do we go to some some other place? Sometimes, I also wonder, like, are these the same way or different ways of saying the same thing? Like there's just a lot of investigation that needs to occur? And, you know, maybe you don't even know the answer is another is another thing. So I like what

  Mike Abramowitz 12:44

  I like, said, where maybe you don't need to know the answer. Because in the exploration of curiosity, to try to find the answer to something that is really unanswerable. It's just getting to getting to a place where you feel certain in what you believe it's like, really what it comes down to, is that the answer? The answer is not the answer. For everyone. It's my internalization of the answer to put me at peace, and a place of acceptance when it comes to the ultimate uncertainty of death. And, you know, I really love the way you said that, or were you asked that and I asked, I think about, I think about death, probably a little too often. Just because I, I realized that the people that I loved in my life that have died, I don't, I want to embody the belief that they lived with purpose, and that whatever their purpose was, and why they left this planet and why they died, was for them to leave some sort of legacy or some lesson for people that were left behind to, to continue on their, on their legacy of whatever that might be. So if that's my interpretation of other people, you know, Nick, dying very early, too early in life, and this, like you brought up this massacre that's like, it's an it's, it's an I am comprehensible as to what the human can do how a human can do something like that. I mean, it's not one comprehensive will. So it's nearly impossible to try to explain to someone like how can you find the gift in this? And in the same breath, it's like, how can we draw out lessons from this, that can make this world a better place? While we're here to help us live a life that's worth living? How can we leave a legacy and how can we be remembered how could we solve problems that exist in the world? And I buy into that, I think about that, like I said, a little too often, but I thought I into it. It's like if these people left me with these lessons, how can I make sure that I have as many humans as I touch, when I when it's not my time to go, I've left people with as many lessons as possible, through me living my life through my unlocked potential or unlocking as much potential that I was blessed with.

  Andrew Biggs 15:20

  Right, right. So leave, leave it better than you found it. It sounds like it's saying that right. And I think you know, so this is really a good kind of foundation for a starting place for us to begin. And then, you know, next question might be, well, what if you are dealing with a death of a loved one? How should I even go about thinking about that, and, again, for context, I lost my father in 2018. And I always loved Jordan Peterson's advice, where he, he said, try to be the strongest man at your, at your father's funeral. And I don't know, if I was, I like to, you know, I'm not going to say I would say I was, it did feel like I showed up about as best as I could. And as President as I could, and showed up for my family as best I could. And you know, the lesson there of like, try to be the strongest man at your father's funeral or person at your father's funeral, just put that away putting that is really just to say, be somebody that someone can count on. To, to take care of what needs to get taken care of, and to be there for others. And also, simultaneously, you need to be willing to process your own emotion. And if you don't do that, then you're not going to be able to be there for others. And I think that's it's like that emotional availability only comes from when you've actually freed up your own emotional plates, right? That's the when the emotional availability actually comes online. So, you know, how do you actually handle your own emotions, I mean, you have to process them. A lot of that just means feeling your emotions, letting it come out, if you feel like you need to cry, cry, if you feel like you need to scream, scream. We've mentioned this on the podcast a handful of times in different contexts. But this is when it's almost most relevant, when you're grieving something. And recognize that like, Grief is a totally normal emotion. It's something that is part of life. And anytime we have a form in our lives, that takes that leaves us we're going to grieve that form. Again, this is whether it's a human being, or it could even be a job that you lost, or, you know, a friendship that changes or a divorce, it's like, you need to grieve all those different things. Obviously, the death of a loved one is the most, oftentimes the hardest of any of those, and it's the most permanent, maybe that's why. Because no matter what, you cannot bring that person back. And that's a tough thing to realize. Whereas, you know, if you get up, you know, get your you and your girlfriend break up, maybe you'll get back together or something, or at the very least you'll find another girlfriend who's even better, but the death of a loved one, that there's that finality to it. And so you truly have to go through the stages of grief, sit with that, be with, be with your emotions, be willing to feel everything you're feeling. You know, try not to stay in denial, try not to, you know, stay in anger, but the only it's almost like the only way out is through, right, you have to go through the stages don't try to skip to acceptance too quickly. Because ultimately, what I find is when people try to be at peace with the death of a loved one too quickly, they actually just skipped a lot of work. And then they they end up grieving for way too long. You know, how long should someone grieve? You know, we can we can maybe touch on that too. Because my personal thought is like, everyone's got to have their own unique experience. You know, and I lost my father. But my, my mom lost her husband have you know, 25 plus years? Like, is that different? For sure. Right? How so? I don't know. How are you supposed to answer that question? And maybe the best answer is, don't even compare like, what's the point? Let that person grieve and you grieve yourself, but what's coming up for you, man?

  Mike Abramowitz 19:28

  Yeah, this idea of grieving is so important for the listener, if you're holding space for someone who is grieving. If you ever hear someone who is grieving, apologize for grieving, you want to make sure that you correct that pattern of thought, because if they ever say oh my god, I'm so sorry for bringing this up. I'm sorry for being a burden. And you know, I don't want to put this on you. It's really important because what's happening is if someone is apologizing for grieving, that means they're unconsciously saying that they're doing something wrong, so you need to correct them. Um, and say, Listen, you do not apologize for bringing this up, you know, like, this is this is so necessary. And I just want to let you know, it is so courageous of you for to be this vulnerable and expose yourself and be real with me. So thank you for giving me the gift of allowing me to hold space for you to grieve. So please go ahead. And you will, I'm sure, you'll probably see just a whole weight lifted off that person's shoulders by you holding space. And that's what, what a lot of times people say hold space are creating an environment for certain emotions to live. And if that emotion is grief, create that environment. And even in the back of your mind, you're like, oh, shit, what I just get myself into, I don't know what to do, you don't do anything. You just You just be with them. Let your heart feel potentially what they're feeling and allow them to not feel that it's a bad thing, or they're doing something wrong, because they're grieving. And they want to express themselves. So my first thing that comes up is that is that is creating the space where grievance can exist. My second thought is for that listener who might need a hold space, is also if you're qualified, or if you're able to, is position a redirect because a redirect meaning if you find the person that you're talking to is getting into this negative cycle of like abandonment, or a negative or a negative cycle of you know, victimhood or something like that. It's it's, it's a tough, it's a very tough place where it's going to continue to build momentum, momentum, momentum, and my grievance counselors who helped me with this. So like I said, it's, it would probably be important for you to practice or, you know, be equipped and trained. But the idea here is, is just positioned for a small redirect. So they don't get into the negative cycle. And it just gets out of hand where they just go into a depression of some sorts. And the redirect could be something like, Hey, tell me what, what were some of the lessons that your dad taught you? You know, while he was here, you know, versus? Yeah, man, how are you going to? How are you going to deal with your dad missing your 21st? Birthday? Like? It's, it's a different redirection of a question. Hey, tell me I know, I don't know much about I don't know much about your sister. But what what were some of your favorite memories with her? Know, what, um, I know, we haven't talked too much about it. But what is what is this specific moment that you you really cherish? And then you'll kind of hold on to for the rest of your life with with your mom. You know, what was what was? What was Little Susie involved in that maybe she would want you to continue on, like to kind of leave a legacy for her. These are these are like potential redirect questions. So hold this space for grievance, and also potentially position for a redirect where they might be able to possibly find the gift for themselves.

  Andrew Biggs 23:05

  Right, right. I mean, those are amazing questions. And I mean, precisely what Mike is saying is so important, what we're doing is we're, we're sitting with them or helping them grieve, but we're also directing them to what was positive about someone's life. And I mean, I get that it's sad, and time is tragic, anytime we lose somebody. And also, I think other cultures can do a better job of celebrating someone's life, right. And maybe you're in a family that, you know, does a better job of celebrating the person the life they lived, rather than, you know, just being being sad that we lost them. And so, there's so much to celebrate, and it's reminding them of that, the time you did have with them.

  Mike Abramowitz 23:57

  I experienced that I went to a celebration of life, and it was represented as one of my students, her dad passed, and it was a giant African American community. And I was it was myself and Jess were the only two non African Americans in there. And and it was joyous it was story after story of how this gentleman impact their lives and how they're better because of him and how grateful they are for him and I was just, I'm bawling my eyes out I'm like crying hysterically because it hit me so hard. Like this is last summer of I want that's what I want my funeral to be like, like, I want people coming up and Non Stop talking about how impactful I was and how much they're better because of me. So if that's the truth, and that's my truth, that I want people to say that about me then I don't want them to say that I lost Like, I don't want them to say, Man, I lost my dad, I don't want James to say I lost my dad, I don't want Lindsay to say I lost my husband. I don't want, you know, anyone to say Mike was lost because I want to continue to live through them. So as long as as long as I can live through people, I'm not lost, my mom is not lost. I didn't lose my mom, my mom is in here every single day, I have a wall of a wall right next to me to remind me of how how impactful my mom has been. So my mom is in law. She's in here, she's in here. You know, Nick, Nick is not lost. I have a picture of him over there. He's not lost. He's inside of me. He's in he's in see, I have a piece of Nick. So this idea of loss is potentially exists. But like you said, there's some cultures shit, they like the body on fire, and they celebrate their dance like, like, this is a joyous experience. And I agree, I think some cultures could potentially do a little bit better job of that.

  Andrew Biggs 25:58

  Right? Yeah. And I mean, what a great framework for the listener here. If you're if you're listening today, that, you know, whomever is no longer with you in the physical form is not lost. They live on in their ideas, they live on their energy. And it even brings up a question. I mean, obviously, again, going back to that initial thought of like, your belief systems. I certainly do my best to communicate with with my dad occasionally. And sometimes that feels easier than other times, right. Sometimes he feels more present to me, than other times. I know, especially in the early on stages, it felt like he was, you know, like, I could just talk to him almost. And he was with me and walking with me. And you know, that might sound kind of strange, right? And was it? Was it real and happening in a sense in a literal sense? Or was it? You know, just a conversation I imagined, I don't know. But it was almost like the intuition was guiding me to have these conversations and, you know, look for guidance and ask questions. And even now, you know, I'll call upon Him to say, Hey, Dad, what should I do in this case, right? Or, Hey, how are like, I'm totally not feeling clear on my direction for it? Or, you know, how do I how do I navigate this situation, and I can still get the wisdom from my father. Again, is that a literal, you know, conversation I'm having with His Spirit, I don't know, you know, but it's, it's a useful, and then be, it's really helpful to stay connected to someone that's such such a critical part of my life growing up. So. And that's an important thing, you know, staying connected, right? You have this, these, these mementos, right, and ways to stay connected. And I think it's just so important to stay connected, and then also to honor the memory, commemorate the memory every so often, maybe it's on the anniversary of their death, and maybe it's on their birthday, but celebrating their lives, even as after their lives is so important. And so just having having space and time, where you know, that's going to be the case, having physical items. It's even an interesting topic, what do you do with their things with their items? You know, with like, what do you do with their clothes? What do you do with their favorite, you know, items that they that they left behind. And, you know, one thing I would just share is, don't rush that process. Don't be like, I gotta get everything out of the house, you know, you know, take your time with it, and wait till you're ready to kind of like, go through those things one by one, and try to figure out, you know, what's the right thing to do with them? At the very least, you know, really consciously make a decision with each of the things don't just say, yeah, like, you know, I gotta get this out of the house, so I don't have to think about it anymore. And, you know, I kept my dad's like, old wedding ring. And then, you know, just a few other few other really important things. That just helped remind me of him and, and so it's just if you're listening, I think this is such an important thing to think about, too. Yeah.

  Mike Abramowitz 29:25

  It's a great reminder, Andrew, I was I was reflecting when you said that my grandpa, my mom's dad when he passed. I was really close with him. I used to play rummy cards with him. Every week, it was like our thing. And when he passed his birthday was June 24. My birthday is June 25. So we always kind of celebrate our birthdays together. And when he he died in May, um, I that my possession that I got from him was his wristwatch, so I used to wear his wristwatch, I still have the wrist. So He died in May. I got the watch. You know, end of May. I used to wear it all the time. And then on midnight, June 24. I have chills, chills thinking about this on June 24, turning to June 25, at 12. Midnight, the watch stopped. I can't make it up. To this day, I have the watch. Really? Wow. I have the watch. Watch is still stopped on midnight turning and you can see the date on Overwatch turning from June 24 to June 25. And I have chills thinking about because I don't know what that necessarily means per se. But I know the way I interpret that and and that's that's what it what is a beautiful gift that you're talking about when you could interpret things you don't know if it's your father's wisdom that's being called to you. But there's an interpretation that you have. When James was in the hospital, I reached out to one of my coaches and I said listen, I'm like, I'm fucking up right now. Like, I don't know how I'm doing this. I am having a really hard time and I need some help. And he said, What would you do? They said, Well, I would ask my mom said so go ask your mom and I I listened to songs that got me into into my head with my mom. It gets me connected to my heart. There's a song by it's called the baby. If you listen to the song, the baby I think it's Blake Shelton who sings it, and you listen to that song. That's my story. Like he literally describes my story. It's unreal. And I could listen that song and I could just cry on the dime, because it's just I connect with it. So I listened to that on repeat, you know, open the floodgates a little bit listen to somewhere over the rainbow. That's a song that brings me back, open the floodgates. And in this like crazy cry session, I'm like, I'm here for the house by myself. Lindsay was at the house with James and I was like, begging like Mom, I need you give me the energy give me guidance. I need this motherly energy. I need this motherly wisdom telling me what I'm supposed to do. I really need some help right now. And I haven't had a dream about my mom in quite some time. And that that night, I had a dream about my mom was real small dream. But all it was is I looked down at my phone and my mom was calling. I saw Mom, if you're on my phone and my dream, and I pick up the phone and I wake up, and I was like, I don't know how to interpret that. There's lots of ways to interpret it. i Well, I know how I interpreted it. And that's all I needed was like, okay, she's with me, I have the answers are within me. She's given me what I needed. And I know I can call forward that motherly energy that I need to bring forward. And it's beautiful. I'm glad you brought that up. Because you're it's true. You know, we don't know, we don't have answers, but we do have our interpretation of what is what is to us. Absolutely. I

  Andrew Biggs 32:44

  mean, thanks for sharing, and that sort of depth right of, you know, how this all relates to our consciousness and the dream state, the waking state and our relationship to the land. I mean, this is, I mean, probably something we'll we'll explore further and our November retreat, right? Because it's like a super, super duper, Deep End sort of stuff that we'd like to talk about. But this has been super helpful. And hopefully you're listening and enjoying this and at least getting something out of it. If you're not enjoying it. Last thing I'll just say is, you know, how does someone properly consult we talked a little bit about it. But one thing that comes up for me, because Because here's the thing, I think some people just obviously, they don't know what to say, right? And so, you know, you and I probably are a little better at giving grace, but like, not everyone is. So when someone comes up and says something really stupid. Like, you know, you'll get over it, or, you know, what's meant to happen happens, or, you know, everything happens for a reason. It's like, there's, there's, even if these things are true, you really need to be aware of what you're saying and how it's affecting others. And, you know, if you don't know what to say, maybe don't say anything, right? Or just say, Hey, I don't know what to say. All I can say is I'm here for you. But sometimes people just say the exact opposite of what you know, they really shouldn't be saying it all you're doing is making it worse for that person so consoling them properly making sure that you're avoiding kind of these common pitfalls. Again, comparison, right It's like someone just lost their their loved one or something. And then you bring in say, I know exactly how you feel right now. I lost my dad and it's like, you don't know exactly how I feel. This is a totally different situation like nobody wants the comparison. So, you know, or it's even worse, like, ya know, I lost my pet the other you know, you know, two years ago it's like she was so important to me. So understand that. You know, there's there's no compare Isn't that you need to be doing. And in fact, it's really, really counterproductive. And you got to make sure that you are properly doing that. So I think that Mike will comes up for you around consoling people.

  Mike Abramowitz 35:14

  So while you were talking, I just grabbed a few books on my bookshelf. I couldn't, I couldn't find one, my favorite one and Alex, I'll expand on my favorite one, too. These are all really great books. Victor Frankel's Man's Search for Meaning the seat of the soul, the power of now Untethered Soul and the inner works. These are all really great books. And my favorite one that I was trying to find real quick on my shelf is Tuesdays with maurey. And then I have one upstairs that I'm reading is called the journey of souls. So again, this is this is like something that I like to feed my mind with. And so I have a lot of these different books, these different perspectives. But I will say to Andrew, to your point, man, most people, they definitely do not know what to say. And even if they say the outlandish stuff, like you said, my, my dad, bless his heart, oh, my gosh, I love him so much. But he's like, you know, and he fought in wars and everything. And he his his responses, sometimes you're like, I know, I can't talk to you about death of a loved one. You know, it's his, he'll say something like, you know, emotional wounds will heal, you know, like, something like that. It's like, all wounds heal. Like, yeah, thanks. But um, it's still, I'm still in pain right now. So. But to you, to your point. listener, dear listener, please. I had countless friendships that are that just faded away. My wife could relate to this too, because her dad died several years back too. And, you know, people that just, they don't show up. That, you know, not only do they not know what to say, but they don't even show up at all. Like they will not show up for the funeral. They're not show up afterwards. They don't, you know, call, they'll say something like, if you need anything, let me know. You know, that's like the cliche if you need anything, let me know. They don't know what to say. They don't know. They don't know what to give, they don't want to ask. So something I would invite is a gesture. I love books, any of these books. So if you have someone, if you have someone that died, any of these books, you could send them one of these. If you want to send a copy of one of my books, I have a book. This top one up here. It's called Real stories, real people's stories of lessons learned from death. It's all stories of people talking about how they navigated through death of a loved one. And it's a really great book, you can give Tuesdays with maurey. That's my go to, I just mailed that to a complete stranger, I saw that her mom just passed away. And I sent her a book, Tuesdays with maurey is a fantastic read. And she was extremely grateful. My nephews, their mom just passed, like I mentioned on Christmas Eve. So for my brother and my nephews, I bought them journals. And then I hand wrote in the journal questions for them to remember his wife and remember their mom by now, I don't know if they're using the journals. I hope they are. And if you're listening this, I hope you're I hope you're using the journals. Because the grievance journal was so helpful for me. listener, please, if you're gonna say if there's anything you need, let me know, I'm encouraging you think on their behalf, send them something, send them a journal that they could use sending them a book they could read, you know, sending him something meaningful, maybe a photo, I know, that's, that's always a beautiful gestures. Like if you could find a photo of them with that loved one who passed away and maybe a handwritten note that goes with it. You know, instead of just saying, if you need anything, let me know. Just think in their terms with empathy, and send them a token of love in your way that can potentially meet them where they're at.

  Andrew Biggs 38:52

  Absolutely, I mean, it's such a, such a great reminder. And it's even I was I was listening to someone speak the other day on social media, they were talking about how we used to shop more for people, you know, and I feel like we're so atomized and isolated and siloed and, you know, part of that's the internet part of that's just the modern culture, you know, working remote and all these different things, but, you know, people used to show up, you know, with, with casseroles, you know, it's what they said, and it's like, some of you listening don't even know what a casserole is, but it's like, you need to be like, what does it look like for you to show up and take care of somebody? And, you know, we've kind of learned like, oh, I don't want to intrude, you know, I want to keep them you know, give them their privacy and the boundaries and stuff. But then, you know, how many people are isolated in hurting because they have really, really good boundaries right now. It's like, congratulations, you've created this impenetrable boundary that no one feels comfortable showing up at your door and and dropping off a tuna casserole. You know, Hey, maybe that's their choice, but like, how do you show them that that's not really what they want, they really don't want to be isolated. They actually do want to be taken care of right now. You know, Mike, you're talking about a great way to do it, right? Send something in the mail and send them a book, send them some journal, like, you know, this is a great thing. Especially. Yeah, blanket like, especially if you're not present, right? With them. I know, my mom, you know, what a part of her grieving process was she, you know, created these pillows out of his shirts. And, like, sent them to all the grandkids and embroider you know, you know, grandpa's always with you and things along those lines, that helped, you know, her grief, but also gave mementos to the grandchildren. And so there's just so many things we can do to show up for people. That's not just words, right? And is the actual gesture showing that, and again, people will say, hey, yeah, I'll reach out if I if I really need something. But generally people don't do that. And so how do we just actually break through that a little bit in a polite way, but in a way that that shows like, Hey, I actually mean what I say I'm not just saying I'm here for you. I'm actually here for you. Right. And I'm showing you that I'm demonstrating that and not just saying,

  Mike Abramowitz 41:21

  Yeah, we got a beautiful blanket from I don't even I don't remember, Lindsey would know. But we got a beautiful blanket. When are still birth happened with Hannah. And it's so comfortable. It's like really cozy and has all these beautiful birds on it. I think it might have even been her old boss that sent it to us. And that's a blink of an eye said to my brother, too. It's just such a beautiful, nice blanket. Now, I didn't follow up and be like, Hey, bro, do you get that blanket like he didn't text me back and say, Wow, thank you so much for the blanket, because I wasn't doing it to for the receiving, you know, it's just to give it, I hope he got the blanket I don't even know, I'm assuming it got delivered. But the point is, is just letting them know, like you said, being present with him. I'm here with you. I'm here for you if you need anything with your words, but then also demonstrating it as well. But some sort of follow up, I think is important. And it doesn't have to be right away. Like it doesn't have to be a week or you know, usually there's that grace period where everyone is there. And then there's going to be a period where no one's showing up. And that's the time where you want to do it. And that's like John rowland's gift ology approach. He's like, I never give a gift around the holidays, or birthdays, because they're overwhelmed with people doing that for them. You want to find the spots where not everyone is doing that. So that's because that's when it's the most meaningful.

  Andrew Biggs 42:38

  Yeah, it's an important important reminder, you know, that, like, that first week, that first month, a lot of times, is super overwhelming. People aren't even, you know, handling all sorts of important, you know, business, important financial decisions are being made, you know, life and insurance policies are being paid out, we're, you know, paying off their debts, we're, you know, finding a gravestone, like, there's just a lot of important, like, actual work that goes into planning a funeral and like announcements, and who's giving the eulogy. And like, like, it's overwhelming. And so a lot of times that part of someone's life is kind of a blur, right? They're just like, I don't even know that first 30 days, like, I was just completely out of it in a blur. And so that doesn't mean that they're not still grieving, you know, 30 days later. You know, in fact, typically, it's it's years and years, right. Before somebody's kind of completely over something. But yeah, yeah. If that's even if that's even a thing being completely over something, it's a poor way of putting it, honestly. But yeah, that's, that's a Miss Miss smokin in my, in my estimation, so I apologize for that.

  Mike Abramowitz 43:57

  Now, it's a good reminder, because you know, that 30 day window, you're right, and then after that 30 day window, it's like, what can we do to try to make sure that it's still top of mind for us? And I just reflected back to my nephews who I mentioned, just this stuff in April, I went home to New Jersey to visit and I was like, What can I do to like, you know, show that I care with my nephews. I mean, they're 13 and 17 years old, you know, it's really hard and I just quality time, and we played wiffle ball in their backyard, I went to the mall, and I was talking to the 13 year old is like, you know, how often you know what, what are some of the things that you and your mom did? And, you know, he has like semi formal coming up. He just had it. It's just like, well, we probably go shopping to you know, buy a new shirt and stuff. I'm like, All right, well, I'm not going to dress you for your semi firm. We could go shopping to the mall. We have lunch, it took them out. They've all both bought some clothes. And, you know, it was like kind of joking with him. I was like, just remember. Um, you're cool, rich uncle. All right. and like I'm just getting, I'm better than rich, I'm, you're cool better than rich. Right? That's, that's the bonding time and the experience and, and I don't know what that does for them, I know what it does for me, but just just being there as much as I can. But on the flip side of that, my other nieces and nephews, they wouldn't receive me like I would attempt and I would reach out and try to do things that took them bowling, but like I wouldn't receive what I was trying to do. So therefore I kind of retreated is like, there's only so much that one can do. And I want to make sure that that is mentioned in this episode as well. Because if someone doesn't know how to receive, it's really hard for you to give. And if you try to, like for me, I was trying to give and trying to give and all I was doing was creating more tension and resistance in the relationship. So I retreated because there's only so much somebody can attempt and I said, I said when, when the time will show up, I want you to know I'm here, but there's only so much that I can do. And you know that I think there's there's merit to mentioning that.

  Andrew Biggs 46:05

  It's great final reminder, because the reality is, you know, it doesn't have to be you who is like the only person consoling them. It's like, you know, when that's received great and when it's not, that's fine too. And hopefully they'll get their needs met another way. So, A by Thank you for this thoughtful discussion. If you're listening, hopefully you got something out of this unit today. Whether it's how to grieve personally or it's hard to consult someone who, who's grieving right now and again, if you if you aren't intimately familiar with that, understanding that these are important lessons that at some point will be relevant for you. So thanks for this conversation today. My thank you the listener and until next week, remember leave today better than you found it. Thanks

  Mike Abramowitz 46:55

  Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the show, please share it with others post about it on social media or leave a rating and review. To catch all the latest from us. You can follow us on Instagram at better than underscore rich and join our Facebook group at the better than rich show. Thanks again for listening. We look forward to seeing you next time and remember, leave today better than you found it

  Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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