How to Handle Uncertainty in Life with Link Forester | The Better Than Rich Show Ep. 41

Faith, Family, & Resilience

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Faith, Family, & Resilience 〰️

How to Have a Limitless Mindset

The whole “winners versus losers” model of entrepreneurship is fading away, and with good reason.

It’s because it doesn’t work. Not in the long run anyway.

Businesses have historically focused solely on the bottom line and crushing the competition while missing something vital to true success, the idea of purpose.

Founder of Conscious Millionaire, 34 time #1 International Bestseller and coach to 7 figure entrepreneurs, JV Crum explains how making a difference is more important than making money.

JV recently sat down with Mike to walk us through his life starting with not being able to afford a candy bar, to working at a crisis hotline, to living at a monastery and how all of these events led him to develop his revolutionary (and frankly, refreshing) ideas around business.

With his philosophy that businesses should primarily aim to uplift humanity and not work in a mindset that’s limited to chasing profits, JV is combating the long held notion that capitalism is bad.

He’s helping entrepreneurs do the inner work necessary to build successful businesses fueled by purpose and love.

You have a purpose that’s grander than just being a business owner. Learn how to tap into that purpose and expand your mindset to better the world around you in this can’t miss episode of the Better Than Rich Show.

Mike Abramowitz 0:01
Welcome back to the better than rich Show. I'm your host today and my name is Mike Abramowitz. And we have a special guest on Season Three today, Mr. Link forester. And if you don't know link, I am so excited to introduce you to him. He has a fantastic book called the side road, which we're will talk about on this episode. It's very short read. And it's extremely profound. We'll talk a little bit about it today. And All proceeds go to nonprofits will talk about as well. So, before I turn things over the link and start asking some questions, I just want you to know who link is after reading his book. First off, you know, he had Charles Barkley, fellow alum of Auburn, be able to write some kind words about length, which is really cool. I can't wait to dig into that. But he has a rare blend of humility, faith, good sense of humor, all of which enabled him to grow through the trials of becoming apparent very early in life a little earlier than planned, a risky career change and the tragic death of a son, which we'll talk about. After graduating from Auburn University in 1987, Linc began his career in sales in sales at IBM, five years later took a leap of faith in the financial services industry, where he continues to lead a thriving, thriving financial planning and wealth management business. He's a native of Atlanta, Georgia. He's an avid golfer, he's a member of perimeter church, and he and his wife Carla spend much of their free time on Lake Lanier with their three children, Caroline, and Cole and banks, and also his dog to daughter in law's his three grandchildren, their dog daily, their cat boots, and a lot of good wine. Welcome to the better than rich show with your hosts Andrew Biggs and Mike Abramowitz. The better than rich show helps ambitious leaders who are on a mission to leave the world better than they found it. change their perspective on what's important, increase their income and impact and systemize their life and business. If you've ever struggled with finding your purpose, have felt disconnected or distracted or found yourself going through the motions. This show will remind you that what you do matters and will re inspire you to chase your highest dreams. It's time for you to become better than rich Linc. Welcome to the show. excited to have you here. Thanks for joining us today. So as far as being a club golfer, all right, you know getting a chance to play you feel like so from here. And you're right, it feels like it's good place to meet people good place to have good conversation, and maybe bring a six pack on the course or something I don't know who knows. Right? My question for you link is I like golf as an analogy. So I'd like to hear from you. I like to play golf. But how do you feel like golf is an analogy for life like we're we're How do you use golf as a vehicle how to use golf as a tool for business for pleasure. And I'd like to hear from you on that. I'm curious.

Unknown Speaker 2:48
Well, I think Golf is a great way to get to know people, you can learn a lot about someone watching them and being with them on a golf course wanting to build a great relationship. And too, you can just learn about their temperament and who they are. And I think it's a great way to, again to build relationship. I don't like golf, and I'm not to listen to music or drink beer on the golf course. So I'm pretty I'm definitely a scratch in that. But lately I've been on the member guest circuit. I played in three already this year. I have three more to go. So we haven't won the whole thing yet. But we've had a pretty good year so far.

Mike Abramowitz 3:24
Cool. If you had to list off top three courses that before we dig in, we're gonna dig it. I'm going to ask you some hard questions today. So top three courses you played.

Unknown Speaker 3:31
Well, I played Augusta, so that's definitely up there. I went to Pebble Beach and played pebble and a bunch of the surrounding courses there. For my 50th birthday. That was a great trip. I played Pine Valley, which is the hardest course in America. And I don't know that even recorded a score there. It's so hard. I never forget we rolled in there was a light dusting of snow on the ground. And I was thinking man, we won't have to play 36 Today, we can just you know, get a later tee time play. 18 But these guys were grinders. 36 It was cold. And again, probably the hardest course in America. So I don't know if I can give Pine Valley the real great rating it needs. I'm probably not good enough golfer and it was a tough, tough conditions. But really a great treat. If you ever get a chance to play. They're just the cabins and the whole experience is pretty awesome.

Mike Abramowitz 4:28
That sounds awesome. 36 holes, man I get tired. Think about that. I get tired for nine holes man 36 That Cisco. I had a crazy a pretty cool golf experience. I played Greenbrier by myself with my own private caddy at dawn. It was pretty epic. It was really really beautiful. So cool. So let me ask you this. You have this early upbringing. You know tell me about link before because you got married young to Carla but tell it tell us about link growing up. Did you always have this entrepreneurial spirit? We have a lot of entrepreneurs that listen to the better than rich show. What were you born with this entrepreneur Oh spirit where you're either the lemonade stand kid grown up or like, who was linked before free. Carla,

Unknown Speaker 5:05
you know, grew up in Roswell, Georgia had, you know, had jobs in high school. So always was a bit of a saver wasn't a good enough athlete for that to distract me too much. My last couple years worked at a place called pro golf discount and worked in the golf sort of industry. And yeah, and then off to off to college, and then kind of life got started early. And you know, found our way to where we are now through a couple of good breaks and relationships and so forth. So that's sort of how I how it all worked.

Mike Abramowitz 5:40
Know when you will met Carla at Auburn.

Unknown Speaker 5:43
I did meet Carla at Auburn. Yes.

Mike Abramowitz 5:45
So in college, get married young. And you started your family and thanks was born pretty early in life with you guys.

Unknown Speaker 5:54
Thanks is born at Auburn. Yep, my wife and I usually this is when the question comes, you are a cheerleader and in Auburn, so my wife and I were both college cheerleaders. We don't break out those old unis up, out, unless it's special occasions now. But that's how we met. And you know, midway through my junior year, we found out that we were with child. And so our life changed dramatically at that point.

Mike Abramowitz 6:20
And that's what I wanted to bring out. I want to bring that out. Because I think sometimes entrepreneurs have things that don't go necessarily as planned. So you're young, you're in college, and you find out you're going to be a dad. And you also have a whole life of dreams that you had ahead of you that maybe it wasn't as expected. Or maybe it was like, how did you navigate that time as a junior in college, back to graduate with building construction with your bachelors? And now you have a kid on the way? Like, can you walk us through a little bit of that like that, that that time period a little bit? Give us a little bit of color in there?

Unknown Speaker 7:02
Yeah, I would say one benefit is we had parents that were understanding, willing to let me finish school, a lot of young couples struggle with money and finances early in the relationship. And we really didn't have a lot of that we just focused on having a baby and finishing school and sort of growing up in a real short period of time. So I think we benefited from understanding parents who loved us and willing to give us a step up and able to finish school. And so that was sort of the big, you know, the the big help there.

Mike Abramowitz 7:38
And you transition to work in IBM in sales around that same time graduating college. Well,

Unknown Speaker 7:44
I spent a year in a construction business, which is sort of the first step for a big science major building construction major. I hated it. I was a year into it unhappy, I can remember those old toolbelt days when I'd get home and just lay on the floor with Carla and banks and think, Man, this is so terrible. And a family friend Dave Boucher gave me my first break in in my career, he said, Elaine, are you ready to come work for me at IBM? And I said, Dave, you just tell me where to show up and when and I'll be there. And IBM was just a great experience for me great training, learn how to help people how to sell how to be a better listener, and it just was a great start to my career.

Mike Abramowitz 8:35
If you think back to this career, I mean, it seems like it's pretty good. I mean, isn't it? Some people think sales is risky, though, isn't it? If you were? Is this considered a risk being a young dad? And it's like, I'm going I'm leaving this construction and then going into sales? Like what was that transition like?

Unknown Speaker 8:56
Well, I don't think that was the big risky move. For me. It was really the next move. For me that kind of took everybody by surprise. But the one thing I did learn at IBM is I learned the difference between a quote a territory sales job, and a contract sales job, I'll never forget, I'm in my midway through the year there and I have these great clients and I was talking to my manager and I said, you know, if you're gonna pay me x to sell X, number of computers, and I think I'm going to sell four times x, I'm assuming you're going to pay me four times what you're going to pay me and he said, No, we're going to pay you 130% of your target earnings, bla bla bla bla bla, and that's when I knew I needed to do something else. I was not going to be in a spot where someone was going to manage my earnings. For the rest of my career. I needed to get out of the quota territory, business and in the car. contract sales. So that was when I knew I was going to do something different. And then in the book, you'll hear that I, I was on a search, I had made a list of all the things I wanted in a job. I wanted to be in sales, I want to be passionate about what I sold, I didn't want anybody to manage my earnings. I didn't want to travel, I didn't want to have to move. And then I made a list of all the cool people are all the people I knew who I thought had cool jobs. And so I went on a little mission for a couple of months where I would just meet with these people and see if their job, Cohen, you know, worked with my list. And during that time, my insurance agent came to see me, Jeff, and Jeff Van Pelt. And he said, Look, you gotta meet this Bill Goodwin guy. And I said, Jeff, I'm pretty sure I don't want to get in the insurance business. He said, No, you just need to meet him. He's a great person. I'm sure he can help you on this journey you're on. And I said, I'm in sounds good. And that was the next big break. Bill is a very dynamic guy, a great listener, I talk in the book, I remember going to see Bill that morning. And cargos link, what are you going to do is I'm going to meet this Bill Goodwin guy. And he said was Bill do is he's in the insurance business. She has insurance business said, yeah, pretty sure I'm not gonna get in that business. But you know, Jeff says he's a great guy to meet. And after meeting them, two hours with him, he had me convinced that this was the only job that was going to, you know, meet my list of ideas about what I wanted to do. And I came home all excited. And Carla had thought I had lost my mind that I'm gonna leave this job at IBM, I seem to be doing well apt to go work for nothing for no salary, just a contract, and sell insurance, and ended up being a great decision for us. And over the years, that this has developed into wealth management, financial planning, and it's just been a great 30 year run. I'm sufficiently unqualified to do anything else now. So it's just got to work.

Mike Abramowitz 12:15
And it's a really beautiful testament that you number one, you made a list of what it is that you're looking for. I don't think there's many people who get that clarity before we you know, continue down that path. But where do you think that exercise came from? Did you have a mentor someone that say, Hey, this is how you help with effective decision making, or

Unknown Speaker 12:36
No, I didn't read a book, I didn't have a mentor, no one told me to do that. I just made a decision that I wanted to do something different. And that's the best idea I had. So thankfully,

Mike Abramowitz 12:50
your own intuition then. Yeah, yeah. That's great. That's great. And obviously, like you said, you work in wealth management, and you've kind of helped build this beautiful life in that. What has kept you in? I mean, 30 years you stand. I mean, you talk to some entrepreneurs, they get distracted by things all around them, how did you stay focused or committed to, to the process for 30 years of staying where you are,

Unknown Speaker 13:19
you know, I would say, for the first 18 or 19 years of my career, I was focused, no one worked harder than me, my business was just on point, just air, you know, my activity, my habits. The fact that people are was willing to let into my system, everything was just as good as it could be, had been a top performer at our company, every, you know, every way they measure it. And then tragedy hit. And I took a pause. And you know, when it's not often when tragedy hits, that people have a business that can take care of them. So for a few years, my business supported us without me really doing anything. And it took me a while to get back going. And that's about the time I sort of transitioned the business from high end insurance and estate planning to financial planning and wealth management. And that was a nice change gave me some new energy. And then just last year, I formed a partnership with a friend of mine. And now we have a bigger team and this is has been a lot of fun. And with the sort of growing wealth management businesses that have value and have succession issues, this has been nice. It's been a fun change. Now Cole is working with me my son and so it's just been, you know, it's developed through the but ultimately what really paid offers, it really did meet my list of things I wanted in a job. And then I just worked it. You know, one problem people have is many people aren't willing to work for themselves. They'll work if someone else tells them to do it, but they can't do it for themselves. And this business we're in, you have to be able to make yourself do it. Make your own goals, make your own habits, not let yourself off the hook, measure yourself every day, give yourself a score, and just keep doing it day after day after day.

Mike Abramowitz 15:33
And you have a chapter in the book you mentioned, there's a chapter called IBM's. Can you speak to what what what that practice is for? And how that served you?

Unknown Speaker 15:42
Yeah, the I Am, are having a life vision statement. And so every morning, I wake up, and I try to do this before I look at any anything on my phone, I try to to remind myself that I am loved. I am secure. I am free. And I am happy. And I tell myself those things every day. And then I typically will read a chapter in the Bible and then I'll let myself look at my emails or ESPN or whatever it might be that I'm looking at that time.

Mike Abramowitz 16:25
Do you have my curiosity on this one? You said secure is one of the words and you said free is another word. So love secure, free happy, can you do you have a definition of how you define secure and how you define free?

Unknown Speaker 16:36
Yeah, I would say it this way. So two of those four things cannot change. Right? I am, I am loved I am loved by God, I am loved by my wife, I've been loved by my wife, it's been the last 34 years had been the best 34 years of her life. That's a joke. Of course, the other one is, it's felt like 10 minutes. Underwater, underwater. Enough for jokes. But you know, we have a close family. I mean, all of our family, basically in the same neighborhood. I mean, my family has separation issues. So we have a lot of love from each other. We all are pretty similar in our Faith Journeys. So, so love is, I think we all feel that, you know, secure, I'm very secure in my faith in what I believe I don't think anything can separate me from what I believe and the God I believe in. And so I feel great about that. So freedoms different, you know, today, I'm pretty free to, I'm still pretty athletic. So I can play golf, I can walk, I can do yoga, I used to do other, you know, had to give up church league basketball, I had to give up bowling, I ran a bowling league in our neighborhood and all my neighbors and friends, about 100 of us did it, we all have gotten injured or hurt. So that's sort of fallen by the wayside. But, you know, I may not always be healthy enough in to do the things that I that I want to do. So freedom is something you can't always take for granted. And then happiness, you're not always going to be happy, there are gonna be seasons in your life, God may put you on a path where your happiness factor is low. And you've got to realize that's just, it's gonna happen. It's unavoidable. But I want to remind myself in times when I am happy, that I'm happy. And it's a real blessing.

Mike Abramowitz 18:36
And to come up with these four words that you came up with, what was the process of elimination to get to the to get clarity of your four items? And your, because I'm sure there was something there?

Unknown Speaker 18:51
Well, I gone through some training. Let me see. Let me grab this book. I'm gonna grab my book. And let me just read you the technical term here. It's not right on the tip of my tongue. But yeah, I recently participated in coaching primarily focused on living out your life vision, which means we direct the construction or destruction of our neuro pathways by what we think about. And I go on to say, I'm not really sure about that whole, self directed neuroplasticity, which is the name of the word. But I do think this self taught that we do on a regular basis is helpful. And so that's how I we went through some training on building a life vision statement through work. And I morphed that into the I ams and I still feel good about the ions. I still wake up in the morning and tell me that I tell myself that I am so and so. So far, so good. I haven't changed it.

Mike Abramowitz 19:55
It's a great practice. And I love that if you're listening right now The show, you can go back to our episode on purpose. And we'll talk a little bit about how to help you craft your own purpose statement. And I really love what link is saying here, which is, once you get clear of your purpose statement, it's tacking them on to your core values, which we also have an episode on. And taking those defining them, reminding yourself of them doing these affirmations these im statements and anchoring that in link. I am curious, though, you said you're very insecure. In the end, Andrew Biggs and I, we had an episode where we kind of talked that sometimes the people of the religion are the problem with the actual religion that, that they're so centered in, in this, the center of of life is the religion. And if someone's not necessarily aligning the way that it's supposed to be, then they're like, bad people, or something like that, like the people versus the religion. For someone so secure In your faith, I figured, hey, I'm gonna ask you some stuff. What is it? Do you experience that at all? Like, I mean, or hopefully, you're not one of those people that like to tell you? No, but you know, what would you have to say about that, you know, there's this and maybe you know, them, maybe you've seen them? Hopefully, you're not that person. It's just like, they project this, you know, unique vibe onto others outside of the community or not as good as them inside the community type of people. It's a deterrent for some. And I don't know if you've experienced that, but being so secure. Can you speak to that just a little bit? I'd love to hear what you have to say.

Unknown Speaker 21:32
Yeah, I mean, I think that's one of the big problems with faith today, you know, faith in America, you know, people are Christian, because they're American. And then they feel like this, we're like this good or bad, you know, you know, how do you get to Heaven is because I'm good enough. And really, Christianity is nothing about that. You know, Christianity just says, Hey, look, we're all bad people. We all make mistakes. My favorite sermon title by our Pastor Randy Pope, he says, Shira, you're worse than you think you are. And I believe, I mean, so give yourself a break, forgive yourself, forgive others, and realize that it has nothing to do with what you do. None of us deserve any of it. And it's all about the finished work of Jesus on the cross. And that's what we believe as Christians, you know, I kind of want to believe something different. I mean, I personally would like to believe that all nice people go to heaven. And I just, I can't believe that because I just, I don't think it's true. I think if this whole Jesus thing is true, if this guy really came, you know, born of a virgin, and really, God lived this life, died on a cross and raised himself from the dead. If that's true, I have to believe it. So you know, sometimes I really prefer to hang on my golf buddies and people in the hood and not my church buddies, because I just, they're not as fun and they take themselves too seriously. So I don't know if that answered the question. Was that in the realm of an answer?

Mike Abramowitz 23:10
Yeah, it does. Because because I think some people get so caught up in, I call it the politics of religion, you know, or sometimes it's the politics of the business, where it's like, they get so caught up in, you know, living up to the rules of what it's supposed to be, they forget about the human component of what you just said that all were perfectly imperfect. And, and having that having a lot of grace around. That is a really great way of viewing it. Because I know growing up Jewish, going to temple is like clicky, it was like a bunch of little cliques. And it was like, I felt like I wasn't Jewish enough to be a part of like certain cliques. And it's almost like a deterrent from the faith or from the faith aspect of the religion. Which is unfortunate, because I assume, I don't want to assume I'm going to ask for someone who's gone through tragedy, which I know I have, that I know you have death of a loved one. Andrew Biggs and I had an episode on this. Sometimes the foundation of the security that we have within that religion or within that faith is questioned. Some people that project their insecurities or project their judgment, sometimes having gone through tragedy to have forced their opinions onto others. So for you to have gone through the tragic loss of a son, Tyler. I, how did how did your faith play a part in this was what I'm assuming you are already secure in your faith before? This, you know, according to reading the book before this tragedy happened with Tyler, and how did that faith carry over? Like was it questioned during this timeframe? And if so, how was it question? If it wasn't how did you stay so secure? I'd love to hear from you on that. And I know you do a good job and it's been In this in the book, I would just love to hear hear about it.

Unknown Speaker 25:02
Yeah, I mean, it's Tyler passed away. He was a student at Auburn passed away, he was 20 years old. And, you know, not a day goes by where I wish that God's plan for my life was different that Tyler was still with us that, you know, you know, he'd be 30 Now would he be married? What would he look like, but I have to continue to worship a God that will allow that to happen. And, you know, that's not that's not easy, you know, thinking about the sovereignty of God. And his, you know, is he really allow people he loves to go through these challenges like that. And I think about story, a job in the Bible, and he went through this whole deal where he lost his family and his health, and then God restored it. But you know, Joe might have liked his first family too. And he kind of misses them. And, you know, I wish that we still had Tyler here. And so one thing that's helped, and I've talked about this in the book is, I think of, you know, Tyler was really never mind. He was never ours. He's always been God's, the day God gave us Tyler, he knew he was going to take him home early. And we have to be good stewards of what God gives us. I'll often say if you want to hear about know about someone's faith, you know, the best way to do it is look at their checkbook. Look at how they spend their money. And stewarding money's hard stewarding kids is even harder. So that's helped a lot. Just having that mindset that I'll see Tyler again. No, God has plans for all of us, sometimes the plans for us to live long, full lives, and sometimes he's going to have a different plan for us. And his plan for Tyler was different. And you know, it was a tough road for a while for sure. And but as time passes, and we have grandchildren, now they've kind of helped a little bit something new in our lives. So that's helped, too. But But yeah, it's not easy to you know, most marriages don't survive the loss of a child. Most people's faith is certainly questioned. And for us, we've been able to, obviously, stay married, to have a very thriving marriage. And also our faith has been really, I wouldn't say bolstered by this. But I would say our faith has remained strong through tragedy. So

Mike Abramowitz 27:35
and what advice would you give to someone that hasn't experienced tragedy yet? Maybe it's maybe it's Christianity, mage Judaism, maybe it's Buddhism, maybe it's Hinduism? Maybe it's something else, something else? How does how might one get anchored to something that's bigger than what is right now? Because there's that the hedonist that might say that someone just dies. And that's it. And that's why we have the better than rich show because it's, it's more it's like the depth of life. It's the deeper purpose behind, you know, behind what, what is? How might someone get a little stronger in that phase to carry them through tragedy in case tragedy does make their way to or towards them at later on in life?

Unknown Speaker 28:24
Well, a couple things, I wouldn't say that God usually doesn't work in people's lives through prosperity. He tends to work through people's lives, through tragedy, and challenge. And so if you're in a time where you're not experiencing a lot of tragedy, but things seem to be good, I would take a moment and try to figure out what is it I really believe? Why do I believe what I believe? And challenge it, question it, learn, really decide what it is you want to believe, because there will be a time ahead, where life is not as perfect as it seems right now. And you'll be better prepared for that. So I just think you need to in times of prosperity, and peace, if that's the right word. Take some time to reflect and think about what you what you really believe.

Mike Abramowitz 29:25
When you say your belief, how do you define a belief? Just out of curiosity, so when someone says, you know, I believe in this or I believe this is what is like, how do you define just a belief in general?

Unknown Speaker 29:40
Yeah, no, if I know the right answer, I would say that, you know, we believe Carlin I believe in absolutes in our life. And so there's certain things in our life that we just don't bend on. And one is our faith. One is our marriage and the fact that we're absolutely committed to each other no matter what I just think it's things that your, your commitment is so strong, that it's unwavering. It can't be because my parents were that way. It can't be because I was brought up that way. You have to have an adult conversation with yourself and say, what is it? I really believe what is really important to me, no matter what. And those are the things that matter, I think.

Mike Abramowitz 30:26
I love that definition. So absolutes unwavering commitment. So when you say, a listener, you're listening to this and say, What do I believe? Another way of saying that is what are my absolutes? What are my unwavering commitments? Or I really liked that link? I'm glad I asked. That's that's that's really eloquently said. So thank you for that. I do want to pivot the book, that you have the side road where we are the profits go and he said, It's all going towards the nonprofits. But what does that mean? Tell us more?

Unknown Speaker 30:59
Well, Cole has a nonprofit called True radical love. So all of the books that I bought, during the pre kind of process, those proceeds went to a handful of charities, one being true radical love, one being Children's Healthcare of Atlanta, one being ground wire, another ministry were fond of. And then now that the book has released and for sale, the profits that we receive all good a true radical love, which is called nonprofit, which is a which is a nonprofit that stands against sex trafficking and pornography there. He and Kayla are very committed to helping couples, you know, not letting pornography, ruin a marriage, or definitely trying to find a way to stand against sex trafficking.

Mike Abramowitz 31:53
Beautiful. And if you had to speak to the book, I mean, why why did you decide to say Alright, I'm gonna take on this project you already have you got the family, you got the grandchildren, you got the business is doing well. Why would you want to take on this chapter of life right now where things are pretty good. You're hanging out sipping wine hanging out with boots, and, you know, your cat and the dog? Oh, you just got to hang out with Daly and playing golf. Like, why would you want to take on a project of writing a book about, you know, all the tribulations and challenges in life, give back and donate all the proceeds to nonprofit? Why don't you just like, chill and sit and be left the hell alone and just enjoy? Like, why would you want to take on this project right now at this chapter of life?

Unknown Speaker 32:45
Yeah, you're not the only person that asked me that my wife asked me that during this process, too. But it's really Cole's fault. I actually ate I think in chapter five of the book, I said, like, if you're powering through this book, you're not really loving the material. It's Cole's fault. So Cole has been wanting me to write a book for a couple of years now. He's in a lot of communities. And people in our industry have written books. And so he, he went so far as to line up a handful of meetings for me, like with a ghost rider with a writing coach, with a company like scripts, and after about five of those meetings, I said, Well, Cole, um, you know, I don't even Journal Well, so why don't let me just see if I can do it. So I just sort of sat down, I started writing a bunch of life stories. And after I had about 20 of them, and maybe 20 more, I might could write about, I said, Okay, if I was going to write about this stuff, what would what would the chapters look like? And so I made a list of these chapters. And then I would take a story, put it in a Chapter and try and write about it. Truth is, I really liked it. I mean, I found it therapeutic. I wish, you know, the books was short read. It's like a long term paper. The publisher says on the back of the book is an 82 minute read so you can kind of time yourself on how fast a reader you are. But I enjoyed it. It took me about four or five months to write it. I did hire a writing coach when I was about 70% done with a book and she was great split seat, Amanda Rooker, she was my writing coach, if you ever want to write a book and you're thinking you want to get some help, she'd be a great person. But it was fun. And then they helped me tie it all together. And then they introduced me to a publisher and publisher ticket first try, which was great. It probably didn't hurt that Charles was willing to endorse the book with a one liner, and so very thankful to Sir Charles for his help. And I'd

Mike Abramowitz 34:50
love to know about that connection. I mean, Charles Barkley, I'm gonna shoot growing up 90s basketball, Charlie, you know, he's the he's the man. So, from the Sixers. Don's I mean, obviously some people's are seeing him on ESPN now. But he was one of the best rebounders defensive players most aggressive power forwards it played the game and shoot when I picked it up. I was like, I Hey, I'll read it because it's linked. And I know it's like, alright, this calls dad, of course, then I was like, oh, shoot Charles Barkley, wait, let me check this out. Right. I'd love to know how that connection happened. And you know, just selfishly more than anything.

Unknown Speaker 35:27
Yeah, it's funny, you know, Charles, and I were at at Auburn, close to the same time, he was a little ahead of me. So I kind of he was finishing up as I was getting there. And we weren't friends at Auburn. But when he's in Atlanta, he lives in a place where I have one of my really good friends lives there. And so we've gotten to know each other that way, we've gone to a basketball game together, we gone to dinner a few times, we recently did a golf trip to another and the thing about Charles, that what I really liked about Charles is, you know, he is he's famous, everybody knows who he is. But he is a great listener, he's engaging. He doesn't, he's just, he's interested in what other people have to say. And what he says, is typically thoughtful, and genuine. And I love that about him. He's a, he's a great guy. And, and I am thankful that he has given us a little bit of a support here.

Mike Abramowitz 36:30
That's, I mean, that's fantastic. And I mean, to to be able to network and kind of foster a relationship with someone that is of celebrity status, like Charles Barkley is, is is is a testament to you, of course, to add value to the relationship, because I'm sure he comes in contact with a lot of people that would like to, you know, consider him a friend or that he would actually write a comment about their book. So it's a testament to you link, you know, just how much value you could bring to his life to so he was willing to reciprocate that. I meant to ask this, I had it in my notes, and I don't want to skip it, because I'm genuinely curious. You have F link, forester, the third, can you fill it fill me in on what the F and the third? Like, you know, where these come into play? I'm just again, very curious.

Unknown Speaker 37:19
Yeah. So link is a family name. I'm a third. So I'm third in line f is my first name. Frank stands for Frank Lake. Forest or the third. We decided, you know, my dad, my parents,

Mike Abramowitz 37:34
Frank. So you're the third Franklin? Well,

Unknown Speaker 37:37
yes, my grandfather was by Frank, my dad went by link, I go by link. And so when we had our first we started thinking, you know, if you go to my club to play golf, and you say, Hey, I'm gonna play golf with Link forester, they're gonna say, well, you're going to play with a big link, are you going to play with a little link, and we weren't sure what our son would be called. So we decided to take my mom's maiden name, which is banks, and start a new tradition. So we have a banks instead of link and now he has his oldest is a boy. Actually, all three of his kids are boys. But his oldest is named banks, as well, as we've started started a new tradition,

Mike Abramowitz 38:24
new tradition, that's cool. And Lync just a nickname or is that your middle name

Unknown Speaker 38:30
is my middle name, and it's the last name and our family. Most people think it has something to do with golf because it kind of feels like a golf name. But it's really just a last name. But again, having the name like Link is like kind of showing up with a visor on the course or your name on the bag there you know, people expect you to have a little bit of game. So it a little bit of practice, you know, unneeded pressure there probably.

Mike Abramowitz 38:53
Well, that's cool. I mean, you got blessed with Lincoln banks. I mean, as far as names go, because if we took maiden names for my family, it would be Abramowitz or Hurwitz. And I don't know if those are really strong first names.

Unknown Speaker 39:07
That might be a little tougher, tougher drawl.

Mike Abramowitz 39:11
That's great. That's great. So so like you know, before we head for the exits, I know the book is available Where can someone get the book and now we're going to finish up our episode with three rapid fire questions for you. But how can people stay in touch with you? How can they learn more about about the side road? How can they learn more about the nonprofits if they want to get familiar with that? What can they do?

Unknown Speaker 39:34
You can get the book where books are sold now so you can get it at Barnes and Noble online, you get it wherever you buy it. Wherever you buy books, it's available. You can you know, Google link forester or the side road and should easily get you to a place where you can buy the book you can learn about me and decide road at our website, link forester author err.com You can go to our we have the side road book is a Facebook location as well as on Instagram the side road book so you can learn about it there. And

Mike Abramowitz 40:13
it correctly you said you were gonna give away a free round of golf with you and Charles Barkley to all of our listeners or something like that.

Unknown Speaker 40:23
I don't think that's going to happen. But I'd love for us to play some. Yeah, the famous games a little bit. Is golf games a little bit better than what you might think or see on TV. He's got some, you wouldn't want to bring too much cash to the course with him. He might get a little of it. Sure.

Mike Abramowitz 40:41
I'm sure. I just remember watching all the footage of his crazy golf swing, just trying to see in all like Michael Jordan joke with him on it and all that footage because I grew up a big Jordan fan. I know they're big friend. So it's cool. So link, three quick questions. Rapid fire, whatever comes to the top of your head. Ready? Are you ready for the questions? I'm ready. All right. Question number one. What do you think the world needs most today?

Unknown Speaker 41:15
think the world needs family. They need dads they need kids need to grow up in a in a home with a mom and dad that loves them. And I think the breakdown of the American family has been really a, you know, a struggle for America. And that would be my number one. I think

Mike Abramowitz 41:37
it's great. Second question, what are 123 books that you think people should read?

Unknown Speaker 41:47
Yeah, I read a lot of fiction. So I'm probably I'm gonna give you one nonfiction book that I read recently. It one thing is that I didn't know this could be possible, but it's shorter than my book. I mean, it's it's incredibly short. But it's a book called forgetfulness by Tim Keller. And it really is a great things about the faith that you think it's just it's a very thoughtful book, I would recommend that.

Mike Abramowitz 42:15
Right. What was the the fiction one I realized

Unknown Speaker 42:17
James Patterson, I read Harlan Coben, you know, you name it, I read it and loved them too. Yeah, I think fiction is fun. I think we up at the lake and just shelling out beer and on the lake reading a book. It's hard to hard to beat.

Mike Abramowitz 42:36
Alright, fair enough. Third question like, What does it mean to be better than rich?

Unknown Speaker 42:41
I think it means to me the number one thing in life is relationships. Relationships are what? Drive life. So relationship with God relationship with your family relationship with your friends. To me, there, there's no amount of money in the world that's worth more than great relationships. And that, to me is the most important thing. That's better than rich.

Mike Abramowitz 43:10
Awesome. Love that link. Thank you so much for your time. Frank link forester. The third, we appreciate you all the you're contributing to societies around the world with through the nonprofits so the book through the message. And dear listener, I just want to thank you for taking the time to tune in today to the better than rich show and get your copy of the side road help all those nonprofits and all those less fortunate who could use some help. And as always, thank you for your subscription. If you got value from the show, please share it. And remember to leave today. better than you found it. Till next time. Take care. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the show, please share it with others post about it on social media or leave a rating and review. To catch all the latest from us. You can follow us on Instagram at better than underscore rich and join our Facebook group at the better than rich show. Thanks again for listening. We look forward to seeing you next time and remember, leave today better than you found it